Season 3, Ep. 2: Feedback Phobia

Feedback can be both scary to give and get, but when delivered in a healthy way and received with an open mind, it can be key to growth. It is important to fight the fear of feedback so you can be the best version of yourself and coach your teammates to be their best—this will not only accelerate development but will move the organization forward.

Join us as Tristen Collins, Licensed Professional Counselor, Adjunct Professor and Co-Author of book, Why Emotions Matter, helps us better understand fear—the psychology behind it and how it impacts our ability to both give and get feedback.

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(We use an audio transcription service so please disregard any errors below.)

Daniel Harkavy (00:01):

Fear. What comes up when you hear that word? Maybe you thought about your greatest fear. If so, what is it? How does it make you feel to think about it? Maybe you noticed a change in your anxiety levels or your breathing became a little bit more shallow. Fear is a primitive, human response. Imagine you’re this caveman on the hunt for lunch and from the corner of your eye, you see this dark ominous figure. It could be this human eating predator that has you right in its target and your brain, it’s wired to make you feel that instant pang of stress. You see back in the stone ages, that type of fear, it protected us from danger, the release of stress, hormones, and experience like this induces could be the difference maker between survival or death. Cue the fight or flight response. While most of us aren’t being chased by these beasts each and every day, our brains are still on the hunt for potential dangers, but now they are mostly socially and emotionally driven, but the response can be the same. The crippling fear that causes us to either run away or to prepare for the fight or sometimes just freeze. And that response while healthy for primitive survival can be both dangerous and disastrous in our work lives. We’ve seen this affect leaders in the area of feedback. Often it goes beyond fear and it can turn into an actual phobia. If we don’t address feedback phobia head-on, it can hold us, our people or our organizations back.

Daniel Harkavy (01:54):

I’m Daniel Harkavy. And this is The Building Champions Podcast. For the past 25 plus years now, my team and I at Building Champions have been helping top business leaders improve the way they live and lead. And our goal for this podcast is to share stories and insights that will help you to become a better leader. In this episode, we will explore the fear so many people have around feedback and help you to understand how important it is to fight through that fear so that you can both get and give more powerful and helpful feedback.

While all of us are familiar with the concept of feedback, it’s a relatively new word that became widely adopted in the 1900’s. It’s origin is in audio engineering and it centers on the concept of a signal being fed back to the source, which can either strengthen and amplify the sound or cause those loud, annoying reverberations we’ve all heard. Today that is applied to our social lives as well. We take something we observe or experience about someone and feed it back to them. Sometimes it’s meant to strengthen and reinforce what we’ve experienced that is known as positive feedback, but sometimes it’s meant to draw attention to something we feel like should be improved on or changed, known as corrective feedback. When we think about fear and feedback, it’s most commonly associated with that corrective type of feedback. So that’s where we’re going to focus on in this episode.

Tristen Collins (03:34):

How I would sort of view it is that our fear can kind of come from three different places and that it can come from our past, it can be about the present and it can also be about the future and sometimes it’s a combination.

Daniel Harkavy (03:47):

That’s Tristen.

Tristen Collins (03:49):

I’m Tristen Collins. I’m a licensed professional counselor and I am an adjunct faculty at Multnomah University.

Daniel Harkavy (03:57):

In addition to her teaching, Tristen also operates a private practice.

Tristen Collins (04:02):

If you have a past situation and let’s say, you know, you had a traumatic experience and it hasn’t been resolved in your mind and body, and it’s been imprinted in your amygdala, then you’re going to have a pretty big response in your present as well.

Daniel Harkavy (04:20):

When it comes to overcoming our fear of feedback, we need to understand the impact our past has on our present. And let’s be honest—all of us have probably had a bad experience receiving feedback at some point in our lives. Maybe the feedback was unwanted or unhelpful and the past negative experience can stick with us, either keeping us from wanting to engage or causing us to overreact in the moment, tricking our brain into thinking the feedback is a threat to our survival.

Tristen Collins (04:52):

I think oftentimes, too, based on our experiences in the past, it will really influence whether or not you go to fight or flight quickly. So part of my job is helping people who have experienced past trauma and really noticing that their response is oftentimes not matching the circumstance. And so often either they’re labeling themselves or other people label them as overreacting. And so even if you think of like post-traumatic stress disorder, it feels like an overreaction in that, you know, for example, oftentimes, veterans have PTSD and the car door slams and they’re safe, but they’re ducking for cover. So that would be your body responding faster and seemingly overreacting to a car door slamming.

Daniel Harkavy (05:44):

Many of us probably suffer from a form of PTSD around feedback ourselves, both how we’ve received it and how we’ve given it in the past. I’m sure we’ve all shared feedback with someone else, perhaps even a loved one, and we felt like they overreacted or didn’t take it well. Whether we realize it or not, that fear from the past can cause us to pause in the present. It can also be scary to think about giving feedback in the moment often, because we’re afraid that we’re going to tell someone something that they don’t know or don’t want to hear. And that could trigger the reaction we just talked about, but research has proven both fears to be unfounded. Studies show nearly two thirds of employees thought their performance would improve if their managers provided them with corrective feedback. In fact, nearly 60% of people prefer corrective feedback over praise or recognition. And as for the fear that they’re going to be surprised by the feedback nearly 75% of employees receiving corrective feedback had known about the issue and were not surprised. Most people know when they’re not hitting the mark. And if we see something and don’t address it, we could be doing more harm than good.

Tristen Collins (07:03):

This is just a silly analogy, but it’s sort of like when you have food in your teeth, the people who are your real friends are going to tell you—you have food in your teeth. And the people who don’t really care about you and aren’t really for your wellbeing, just let you keep that green thing in your teeth all day. And so I do think that ultimately it can be so much worse than that, but if people really have your back, they want you to be your best. They want you to grow and they don’t want you to be dragged by something that is creating havoc in your life or creating problems in your life.

Daniel Harkavy (07:36):

And finally, there’s that future piece, many people are afraid to give feedback because they project into the future and think about what could happen. Often that’s rooted in a sense of being liked. Their memories or past negative experiences combined with those present fears we just addressed, they’re afraid that if the feedback conversation doesn’t go well, the relationship will suffer. It is always a risk because we can’t control how the other person’s going to react. But the truth is if we withhold feedback, we can actually do more damage to the relationship in the future.

Tristen Collins (08:15):

I think really, if we can start to see that when we withhold feedback from people, it’s actually really unloving. So oftentimes we can dilute ourselves to think, well, actually I’m being really loving by not telling this person that they’re completely annoying me, but then you get to this point in your relationship where you don’t want to see them at all. And really was that loving for you to avoid talking about a situation that they may have been just as happy to address and want to grow in, and that they found your relationship worth it, that they would rather be in a relationship and belong and have that connection and have your rejection. And so I do think that realizing that avoidance of feedback really is avoidance of love and connection.

Daniel Harkavy (09:00):

I think most of us know how difficult it is to have a strong, personal, intimate relationship without honest feedback. And the same is true for our relationships at work. According to research from Gallup, 98% of employees will fail to be engaged when managers offer little to no feedback. In fact, 65% of employees said they wanted more feedback. And this isn’t just a problem for managers. More than 60% of people said that they wished they received more feedback from their colleagues and their peers. So how do we face our fear of feedback so that we can overcome it? It starts with how you receive feedback yourself. If you want to create a culture that values feedback, you have to model it yourself and create a discipline of regularly asking for feedback from those around you, which means being aware of how you might react in the moment when receiving this feedback. And it’s often easier said than it is done.

Tristen Collins (10:04):

Putting trauma aside, past trauma aside, just yeah getting feedback in the present situation is challenging. Having a growth mindset is huge because having a fixed mindset really makes us vulnerable to labels. And so, you know, labels are often connected to shame and shame is a threat to our identity. I think part of it is we have to change our frameworks before we even engage with feedback because that story you’re telling yourself is going to influence how you take the information you’re given. But if you have that mentality of a growth or fixed mindset, you can take that feedback and kind of reinterpret it through the growth mindset lens as well as if it’s shame. And so part of, I think mental health is being able to identify what are the thoughts that we’re telling ourselves and really trying to evaluate is this thought productive or is it destructive? And oftentimes shame-based thoughts are just completely destructive. I do think the stronger that you can get in your shame resilience, personally, it will help you. If somebody isn’t good at giving feedback, you’ll be able to take it and say, oh, this doesn’t have to do with who I am as a person. This is something that I can get better at.

Daniel Harkavy (11:27):

To navigate these situations well, you must be able to control your emotions so that they don’t overwhelm you and affect how you react. Pay attention to your body, your breathing, and focus on staying calm rather than trying to ignore your emotions, acknowledge them by giving them a label and then allowing them to pass on through. Don’t hyper-focus on them and miss what the other person is saying. So if I’m receiving some form of constructive feedback, that’s designed to help me, if I feel that I’m becoming defensive, I need to be first off self-aware. And I say, hmm, interesting. I’m feeling defensive. And I try to put that away. I try to let that pass through and then I refocus on what the person is saying so that I can glean the insights that this colleague, teammate, board member might have to share with me. This is difficult, but it’s so beneficial.

Tristen Collins (12:27):

I think that it’s helpful to practice feedback with your partner or your family members first because I do think that the way that we give feedback and receive feedback starts personally in our home and our relationships. So one of the ways that I guide people in giving feedback to their partners is first using language that is just focused on what you observe. And this is actually very challenging. A lot of people don’t realize how much evaluative language we use. So for example, let’s say that you go into your kitchen and it’s completely dirty. And, you know, you might say, you know, who made this mess? It would probably be more in the evaluative place instead of saying, you know, I see that the dishes are out and they’re dirty. Think of yourself as a detective or you’re a police officer going into the scene of a crime. You’re only allowed to say what you see, not to make judgments.

Daniel Harkavy (13:38):

This is so important to remember the more emotion and judgment you insert into the feedback that you give, the more likely someone’s going to react defensively—and that is never productive. To keep things productive, remember that giving feedback should be less like a lecture and more like a conversation. It shouldn’t be just about what you have to share. You have to engage the recipient of the feedback.

Tristen Collins (14:07):

Oftentimes I think what happens in situations where there is a problem, it can become a battle of win or lose, and that usually doesn’t become a productive conversation. But if you can come to a conversation and think more collaboratively, and to really have more of a curious mindset of, I may not know everything that happened in this situation, can you enlighten me? Can you illuminate me to what could be happening? And give people space to explain their experience. And then you can kind of put that information on the table and say, okay, now that we’ve both put these things on the table, let’s come up with a plan together.

Daniel Harkavy (14:48):

And that can be the biggest key in giving productive and powerful feedback. You need to reframe how you see the opportunity. Feedback isn’t about solving a problem. It’s about serving a person. We need to remember that in the words we choose, how we communicate and the environment we create. It’s not about fixing a specific problem, but instead about investing and believing in the person. It’s about pushing past the uncomfortable and sharing what we see to help the other person grow because we care about them. At its heart, feedback isn’t about helping someone else feel better; it’s about helping someone else be better. And with that, as our motivation, we can have the courage we need to fight through any fear we may feel and truly overcome feedback phobia. When done in a productive way, consistently delivering powerful feedback can demonstrate how much we care about others and put them and our organization in a better position to succeed. But what you’ve got to remember is that it all starts with us as leaders. We have to model this. So the more that we ask for feedback and the better we respond with a posture of gratitude, the better off we’ll be. And then when we take that feedback, if we believe that it’s accurate, if we see the validity in it, well, then we, as leaders need to take action. And we begin to put some of those suggestions into place so that we can be better leaders ourselves.

Daniel Harkavy (16:33):

Coming up. Todd Mosetter, our Vice President of Content Development will sit down with one of our Building Champions executive coaches to discuss some practical steps that you can take to overcome feedback phobia and ultimately improve employee performance and business outcomes.

Todd Mosetter (16:53):

Hi, my name is Todd Mosetter. I’m a vice president and executive coach here at Building Champions. And in this part of the episode, I’m excited to sit down with one of my fellow executive coaches, and today it’s my friend, as well, Shannon Eckmann. Shannon, glad you could join us.


Shannon Eckmann:

Thank you so much.


Todd Mosetter:

So, Shannon, before we get started, I have some feedback I’d like to give you. A bad joke, but the truth is even the mention of that phrase probably caught your blood pressure up a second. The simple phrase, can I share some feedback with you tends to have a reaction to us, and it’s usually not as positive as it could be. The word phobia from a clinical perspective may be too strong of a word, but we definitely have fear around feedback. As you work with your clients, help us unpack this a bit. Whether it’s giving feedback or receiving feedback in general; how do you find your clients respond to the, can I share some feedback question?

Shannon Eckman (17:44):

Absolutely. I think this is a huge area of growth and opportunity and it shows up in our coaching all the time. Particularly with some of the clients that I work with, they’re needing to get into a regular practice of giving feedback. And, and I think there’s phobia on both sides. People are reluctant to receive it. They’re reluctant to give it. And, I feel like one of the best things to do with folks is really unpack that so that people can practice, because I think there’s practice that you benefit from in being able to be calm in receiving feedback and thinking that my first response is thank you because if I am wanting to get better and better at what I do and the way that I come across to people, someone taking the time to give me feedback, that’s a gift. The same is true on the giving side, people getting into the rhythm of saying, I am integral to my team becoming the best they can be. Me paying attention to what they’re doing, me paying attention to finding areas where I say do more of that. That was so good. Thank you for doing that. As well as I want to give you some feedback on something that you might not be aware of, but for sure I’m giving it to you because I want you to become the best at what you’re doing. I think that makes a difference.

Todd Mosetter (19:15):

It makes a huge difference. You listed a couple things there. Let’s unpack a couple of them. So let’s start on the I’m receiving feedback end. What are some tips and best practices, right? One that comes to mind for me is when someone starts giving me feedback, what I’m really guilty of is I usually start to get a little defensive. Well, he didn’t, he didn’t know this, or she didn’t see that. And rather than just listening to it, to understand and accept it and take it like as a gift, I kind of put up a bit of a defense wall and I may not be listening as well as I could be because I’m kind of arguing with the person in my own head about whether I agree with it or not. So a tip that I’ve tried and done myself is to set that voice aside, at least during the actual conversation. Listen, not to agree or to disagree, but to understand. And a way that I do that in the moment is I ask follow-up questions, clarifying questions. Well, what did you mean by this? What did that look like? Because if I can stay curious, it helps me be less defensive, agreeing and disagreeing. Anything else you’ve seen clients do that I’m getting feedback? What can I do to try and receive it as a gift?

Shannon Eckmann (20:26):

Yeah, I think that’s important that, that when we hear the—it’s time to receive feedback mode, understanding what’s happening to us physically and realizing, and what I have done in the past too, is even lean back, relax, let your shoulders drop, assume good intent. And if I can be listening in that frame of mind, I’m going to hear more. It’s not like receiving a cancer diagnosis where we shut down quickly because we’re trying to grapple with what the first three words out of the physician’s mouth instead saying, I’m going to stay open and I’m going to listen because there’s a gift in here for me to receive. The other piece though that I’m wondering about is that I think relationship matters, that if I’m getting feedback from someone who I don’t think knows me, or hasn’t built in some time developing our relationship, then I hear that feedback differently than when my boss says, hey, I’d like to give you some feedback because there’s relational history there. I know he knows me. I know what his intention is. And so I can sweep all of my personal defensiveness aside and listen differently.

Todd Mosetter (21:48):

I think practically that is so true. I couldn’t agree more. I mean, I’ve experienced that. The thought that pops into my mind, that I’m thinking about is in the moment, how can you set aside—maybe you don’t even like the person? Let’s even take it a step further. There’s a lack of trust in the moment for my own growth. How can I focus? Not on who the person is, but what the person’s saying. And then afterwards I can evaluate, do I agree or disagree? Does the person know it? But I wonder in the moment is, is maybe a best practice to almost forget the who and try and just focus on what’s being said. And afterwards, like I said, and then you can evaluate, do they know the whole story, was their intent pure? Is it valuable feedback? If someone’s given me feedback on being a better presenter and they have no expertise there, maybe I need to take that with a grain of salt. Right? So, I just wonder, is there a nugget there that in the moment try and think past that and then afterwards evaluate it.

Shannon Eckmann (22:52):

Yeah, boy, that’s a good question. I think part of it, there would be, there are nuggets for us everywhere. And so, if I can be constantly mining for that, then I’m not so concerned about who’s saying it in the moment or what sort of relational history we may or may not have, I’m instead saying, wait a minute, what if there’s something here? Honestly, I think that’s harder to do, but if we can develop that practice of mining for feedback, I think it sets us up differently.

Todd Mosetter (23:28):

I love that perspective. I looked at a study recently that stated that people were more likely to go and ask for feedback from people that they liked, regardless of if they thought they could help them. So there is that interesting piece that we tend to want feedback, but if we’re being honest, we often want feedback from people that we think are going to give us good feedback, and we may not be so blatant with ourselves that we’re like, hey, I’m just out for an attaboy on this. But on some level we’re asking for feedback from people that we do trust and know us, which is good, but there’s goodness in sometimes going to people that may not like us as much, may not know us as much, may not trust us. And again, balance where that fits into the equation, but if we are only ever asking for and getting feedback from people in our cheerleader network, rather than our challenger network, we might not be getting all of the goodness and growth that’s to be had.

Shannon Eckmann (24:26):

Yeah. You know, we see that when we’re asking clients to give us a list of people to engage in a 360 degree evaluation process and really challenging folks—pick a variety of people because you’re going to get people who want to challenge you, but they’re also going to have good things to say, because let’s be honest, the growth comes from the constructive feedback. If people are just always saying, you’re great, you’re fine, you don’t need to change anything—we know that’s not true. And actually that feedback can slow our growth as opposed to someone who’s going to take the time and it might be unpolished. And it might smart a little bit. But in the long run, they’re going to give us the keys to how to grow more so than the atta boy or atta girl.

Todd Mosetter (25:18):

There was another study I was looking at recently that the type of feedback, whether it be corrective or positive and reinforcing, however we want to politically correct label those things, experience played such a role in it. And what it found is that more junior people in their career actually preferred more positive feedback versus negative feedback. And the longer tenure you had, the more experience you had to your point, those people tend to be more secure maybe in their abilities. And they welcome that corrective feedback because they have a hunger to want to get better. They’re humble enough to know that they can always improve. So even that balance, you need to think through maybe where somebody is in their confidence and development curve and what kind of feedback is best going to help them. Speaking of kinds of feedback, we spent a little bit on what if I’m getting the feedback. Let’s unpack the second part of what you started with is I want to create a culture of giving more feedback. What types of advice and insight would you offer on that piece?

Shannon Eckmann (26:19):

That is a key area that a lot of coaching centers on, especially certain times of the year when people are getting ready to do evaluations and they realize, man, I have not been giving regular feedback all year. And so this evaluation is going to come with a whole bunch of new information and that’s a great spot to just say, okay, from here forward, let’s figure out a different cadence. How are you regularly thinking through what feedback can I give to my employees or my teammates that helps to make them better? And it also comes into play our appetite for conflict that many times people will connect feedback with engaging in a conflict because I might tell you something that you either aren’t aware of, don’t want to hear, you might burst into tears or start yelling at me and people just sort of let their mind race away with them, as opposed to saying, if I’m going to help this person become the best they can be. I’m going to push through that. And I’m going to give feedback that is very clear, that’s specific, that comes from a space of positive intent. And, if I’m doing a good job at that, chances are I’m able to kind of poke through someone’s natural defenses and give them some information that they can act on.

Todd Mosetter (27:57):

There are so many good things that you put in there. We could unpack all of them in a whole other episode. One thought that comes to mind is our good friend, Dr. Henry Cloud has this concept about being responsible to versus being responsible for. And when I work with my clients on feedback, we talk about this one a lot. I’m responsible to you, how I engage in the conversation, what I say, the respect that I show you, the care that I do when I communicate. I’m responsible for all of those things, to your point, how I communicate. I can’t be responsible for how you’re going to react. And when I try and carry that burden as well, I’m carrying two things that frankly are too heavy to carry. It’s my job to carry the first one, how I engage with you, how I care, how I show up, how I communicate. I need to own that as a leader and as a teammate completely. But the moment I start thinking about how you’re going to respond to it, then I’m taking on a burden that frankly is a lost cause because I can’t control that. And too many leaders allow that responsible for piece to get in their way. I don’t want to give you feedback because to your point, I’m going to, I’m afraid of how you’re going to respond. And that fear keeps you from being a really good and engaged leader.

Shannon Eckmann (29:17):

Absolutely. And boy, I’m learning stuff in this conversation today, too, that especially in sensitive conversations, I have seen, in fact, I had a great example of a seasoned chief human resources officer. He and I were talking this week and he has this concept down. We were, we were talking through how to give some sensitive feedback and he definitely lived that out and I think has more success because of it. Because if we’re trying to control, cause really that does come down to control. If we’re trying to control both ends of the conversation and we’re not sure we can do it sometimes we just throw up our hands and walk away from it rather than stay in our lane and be responsible for our side of the conversation.

Todd Mosetter (30:08):

It’s that, that control piece is so key because the game you start playing with yourself is, well, I’m not going to say this, but I’ll say that, or I won’t do. And you need to just be responsible for showing up and caring and pressing in. You know, the other thing is, you know, semantics matter and when I’m working with my clients, we also talk, we often talk about how do I give someone feedback? And one of the points I always make to them is that, in my opinion, great leaders don’t give feedback. They have feedback conversations because when you go into it thinking that it’s going to be a lecture, I’m going to sit down, Shannon, I’m going to give you some feedback. A, I think my approach is wrong and B, I’m not setting us up for success because in that I see my win as did I communicate the feedback to you versus if we can say, no, let’s have a feedback conversation. I’m going to tee it up, but we’re going to talk about it. It’s two ways. So it’s not me just giving feedback. It’s me asking questions to understand the feedback as well. I think that mindset shift can play a huge role in the way you give feedback and how your people receive that feedback.

Shannon Eckmann (31:21):

Absolutely. And the idea of constructive feedback, we tend to only think through the initial lob and then, you know, we’re all freaking out after that. But I think what you’re saying is it is a back and forth. And so feedback requires both listening on both parts, as well as responding. That if I’m the giver, it doesn’t mean that I’m just concerned about what I’m saying, I also need to really dial in to what what’s the response coming back at me and how do we get to a better place together. And those feedback conversations can build trust. They can build a sense of comradery as opposed to being something that tears it down. The other piece that I wonder about, too, is for many of the executives that I work with, it’s not a matter of giving feedback that is so fundamental. Oftentimes feedback is about nuance and it’s about shaping as opposed to please don’t do that anymore. It’s about approach and style. And if we could keep in our heads that we need that our whole life, there’s not one point in a person’s career where feedback is more important, and then it ceases to be. There are people in the, in the C-suites of many organizations we serve that are hungry for people to give that nuance feedback—help me with my style, help me with how I’m coming across. And so it’s not just waiting for the big feedback moment. It’s those little pieces that just help people steadily develop an appetite for being the best they can be.

Todd Mosetter (37:54):

At Building Champions, if you’re around us for long, you’ll hear this more often than you probably want—beliefs always come before behaviors. So to your point, Shannon, I could walk away from this episode going, okay, you know what? I do need to give more feedback, and frankly, that’s good. That’s a behavior. But if you don’t address those beliefs to your point, do I believe that it is my, one of my greatest opportunities and responsibility as a leader, as a teammate, as a husband, as a father, is to give the people in my sphere feedback. You know, the phrase that we often use is the purpose of feedback is not to help someone feel better, it’s to help them be better—because in your heart, you feel like, you know, that you have a burden that if you’re seeing something that can help someone else and you don’t share it because you’re afraid that’s probably a missed opportunity.

Shannon Eckmann (38:51):

Yeah. And no matter who you are listening to this, you know, if, if you spend time with us, we talk about our behavioral profiles. Whether you’re in the DISC language, whether you’re a D I S or C feedback comes across differently, both giving and receiving. And so if you’re maybe like Todd and I, higher on the D spectrum, we tend to, you know, drop like a rock to the bottom line and sort of tell the end of the story first. So for us, it’s like take people on the journey, give a couple of details before you get to the bottom line. And for other folks, it might take them a while to actually get to their point. And so being aware of that, that this is communication. And so how, how do we want to give the feedback, but also thinking about who’s going to receive it stylistically? How can we tee that up well, too? So that something like our style doesn’t get in the way.

Todd Mosetter (39:49):

I love that point. We often, when we talk about communication styles, we often talk about it in three areas, right? It’s know yourself—how do you naturally communicate? Recognize others—how does this person communicate? And the great leaders they event adapt their styles to meet their people. So that’s a very practical tip. Before we finish, you know, we have the privilege and the opportunity to do trainings and webinars and workshops with clients. And we do one around feedback and many organizations have their own feedback model, but we actually have a pretty simple one that’s been around for a long time. And I’d love just to share it with our listeners real quick because if you’re looking for a very practical way to give feedback and what we refer to as the what—so what, now what model. So in your feedback, if you can be very specific, what is it that I’m seeing, observing, or feeling that I want to give you feedback on? What is it? Be specific. So what, well, why does it matter? Help tie it to a larger purpose with the way it’s representing you with the way it’s helping you serve your customers, with the way it’s helping you communicate an idea, why is it, why am I seeing this? And what is my burden? What is the importance of this? And now what coming out of this, what is my heart and my hope for you that we would love to see different? And that’s where that conversation piece comes in. Because if you can come to the, to the table with, what am I seeing and why is it important? And together, let’s talk about how we move forward. What is it? Do you agree? Do you disagree? What do you see? But now what, you’re moving to a place of action and ownership, and it’s super simple, or what is it? Five words, right? What, so what, now what? But if you don’t have a feedback model that you’re using, this one is very simple and effective.

Shannon Eckmann (41:31):

I love that. And so I hope that everyone today, if you’re like me, you were taking notes and this is something that we’re giving to you because we think it’s important. We think you’re going to be a better leader, both in the conversations where you’re on the giving end, as well as the receiving end.

Todd Mosetter (41:50):

And for those that have been listening. Thank you so much, Shannon. Thank you for taking time down. I too walked away with some new ideas and thoughts. As always, you can find us at There, you can find episode notes, extra resources, things to help you along your journey. Thank you so much. I hope you find someone in your life, your leadership at home, at work that you care enough to give feedback to, and don’t let your fear of it get in the way. Until next time, thanks for listening to The Building Champions Podcast.

Daniel Harkavy (42:23):

Thank you so much to our guest, Dr. Tristan Collins for sharing her examples and insights from her work and demonstrating how and why we have fear. And we would absolutely love it. If you would share the podcast with others and leave us a rating and a review in your Apple podcasts app, doing so helps others to find us. And it helps us to learn what we’re doing well, and then where we can improve that feedback so that we can grow and provide our listeners with content that will truly transform their lives and their leadership.

In This Episode

Tristen Collins
Licensed Professional Counselor, Adjunct Professor & Author of Book, Why Emotions Matter